【键盘侠】大帝遇小加得分难超15|吊打年年有 何时是尽头?

2019-11-29 14:22:39 reddit {{info|html}} {{advert|html}}

Joel Embiid has never scored above 15 points or shot above 40% from the field in a regular season game in which Marc Gasol has played

恩比德NBA常规赛生涯遇到小加索尔的时候,得分从未高于15分,命中率也在40%之下。

2016-17:

- 12 points (4/10 FG, 1/4 3PT, 3/4 FT)

2017-18:

- 14 points (4/10 FG, 0/2 3PT, 6/6 FT)

- 15 points (5/13 FG, 0/2 3PT, 5/9 FT)

2018-19:

- 15 points (4/13 FG, 0/2 3PT, 7/8 FT)

- 14 points (4/15 FG, 0/6 3PT, 6/10 FT)

16/17赛季面对小加: 12分(10中4,三分4中1,罚球4中3)

17/18赛季面对小加分别是:14分(10中4,三分2中0,罚球6中6)和15分(13中5,三分2中0,罚球9中5)

18/19赛季面对小加分别是:15分(13中4,三分2中0,罚球8中7)和14分(15中4,三分6中0,罚球10中6)

If we extend this to the playoffs, he's scored above 15 points only three four times (below 40% from the field in three of those) and above 40% twice.

Joel Embiid's career scoring lines vs. Marc Gasol: 16.1 PPG, 35.9% FG

如果我们扩大的季后赛,他遇上小加只有三四次得分过15,命中率只有两次超过40%。

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[–]76ers _MatisseThybulle 127 指標 12小時前

Here’s the karma you ordered

76人球迷:这就是一物降一物。

[–][OKC] Russell Westbrook RichLeopard 10 指標 12小時前

5 games...

雷霆球迷:才五场常规赛吧……

[–]Fermats LastAccount 41 指標 12小時前

And he's ignoring the postseason games where he has scored >15 points 4 times.

而且楼主还忽略了恩比德得分超过15的4场季后赛。

[–][TOR] Fred VanVleet siakams[S] 4 指標 12小時前

Is there any other player that he's consistently played so poorly against? These games span multiple seasons and multiple teams.

猛龙球迷:还有没有其他球员能让恩比德长期这么难堪的?楼主列的这几场比赛数据跨越了几个赛季,小加也是从灰熊到猛龙。

[–]76ers Zedorf91 24 指標 12小時前

No there isn’t. Gasol, Horford, Adams, and Gobert are the only guys that can stop him. Gasol has always been the best of them

76人球迷:没其他人了。能够冻结恩比德的只有小加、霍福德、亚当斯和戈贝尔。而小加一直是他们之中做得最好的。

[–]76ers phillydoop 896 指標 12小時前

It’s four times in the playoffs. But it really doesn’t matter, Gasol has always given Embiid trouble and I don’t see that changing with the way Toronto guards Embiid.

76人球迷:恩比德季后赛遇到小加有四次表现还不错的。不过也是真不重要了。小加总能给恩比德制造麻烦,就按照多伦多防守恩比德的套路来说,我觉得这种局面是得不到改善了。

[–]Raptors Laetha 284 指標 11小時前

The help and double-teams are what really seems to flummox him. We've got absurd length and not a bad defender in our whole rotation. 1-on-1 against Gasol he seems uncomfortable, but when the help comes he seems to want nothing to do with the play.

I think some experience at identifying double-teams early and learning to deal with/pass out of them would really help him deal with Gasol.

猛龙球迷:我们的协防和包夹貌似真的让恩比德很茫然。我们的高度太强了,整个轮转下来没有防守不好的。而且恩比德1对1打小加的时候好像很不自在,不过当协防过来时,他貌似就没有攻击欲望了。

我觉得,有了早早识破包夹的经验,学会在包夹下出球的话,恩比德就能更懂得如何去对付小加。

[–]76ers phillydoop 156 指標 11小時前

The problem is that his whole setup is slow. He doesn't have a great one dribble move, he needs to more time to setup and the Raptors aren't letting him do that. Not many players can't take away the positioning like Gasol/Horford can. Oddly enough Kanter is also pretty good at it. The other major issue is that Embiid is pretty bad passing out of double teams to begin with.

Gasol takes positioning away from Embiid, won't bite on his fakes (usually) and is smart enough to not get baited into fouls. They should really just run different sets against Gasol but the team needs to learn the regular offense first.

76人球迷:问题在于恩比德的进攻落位太慢了。他的运一步启动并不出色,他需要更多的时间落位,猛龙可不答应。像小加和霍福德这种善于卡住位置的球员并不多。奇怪的是,坎特这方面倒也做的蛮好。恩比德其他的大问题在于他面对包夹时的出球。

小加总能在和恩比德的对抗中站住位置,又不吃假动作(一般情况),而且他很聪明,不大会被对手造犯规。76人真应该针对小加演练不同的进攻套路,不过首先还是得学会常规进攻手段。

[–]Shay THEKLAW 38 指標 9小時前

I think Gasol just doesn’t like to jump so no one can fake him

我觉得小加不吃假动作是因为他不喜欢跳……

[–]76ers phillydoop 28 指標 9小時前

This might be more true than some of us want to admit, but at least he is tall enough that it works for him.

76人球迷:也许这才是真相,不过他至少够高啊,这就管用了。

[–]Claws RR 16 指標 10小時前

This is why JJ was so important. The JJ Embiid hand offs drew Marc out of the paint and got Embiid going to the basket with a head full of steam.

所以说雷迪克的重要性这就凸显出来了。他和恩比德的手递手可以把小加吸引出油漆区,然后恩比德可以借势猛冲篮下。

[–]76ers phillydoop 15 指標 9小時前

Correct. And that just isn't something you can easily recreate. JJ is on the of the best shooters of all time and maybe the best off balance shooter. Which was key since the Embiid hand offs weren't always great.

76人球迷:正确。这种操作可不是轻而易举做到的。雷迪克毕竟是联盟最顶级的射手之一,甚至是身体失衡状态下的最强投手。这是很关键的,因为恩比德的手递手并不总是那么稳。

[–]walodapat1 651 指標 12小時前

Marc" Call me Papi "Gasol right there.

这就是马克-“叫我爸比”-加索尔

[–]Wizards nova2006 295 指標 12小時前

Sixers is going to trade for Gasol

奇才球迷:76人怕是要把小加交易到队里了

[–]76ers LeveonNumber1 24 指標 10小時前

I thought we fixed this shit when we got Horford, I guess we need to get Embiid's other Daddy Gasol over in Philly as well.

76人球迷:之前还以为得到霍福德之后就能解决恩比德怕霍福德的毛病,现在看来,咱还得把恩比德的另一个爸比加索尔搞过来才行。

[–]Raptors jps78 123 指標 12小時前

This is the way

猛龙球迷:就是这个思路

[–]Hornets Ochikobore 18 指標 11小時前

Honestly they should just trade away Simmons, Richardson, and Tobias Harris for a five centers lineup lol

黄蜂球迷:那说真的,76人应该把西蒙斯、理查德森、哈里斯都送出来,组建一支五中锋阵容,哈哈哈

[–]Hawks Rabidgoat1 7 指標 7小時前

Back to the 2015 Sixers lineup

老鹰球迷:那不就回到了14/15赛季76人那套阵容。

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[–]Bulls BigPoppaPuff 3167 指標 12小時前

Marc Gasol has had a phenomenal career.

公牛球迷:小加索尔已经取得了一个现象级的职业生涯

[–]Raptors Arthurs_Boi 1217 指標 10小時前

For real, he's one of the best big men of his generation, and I can't wait to see him get inducted into the Hall of Fame.

猛龙球迷:还真是,他是他那代球员里最强内线之一,我很想看到他进名人堂。

[–]Raptors ilikeslamdunks 243 指標 9小時前

His NBA career is fringe but when you add the International play its gets into lock territory. The Championship last year didnt hurt either.

猛龙球迷:单看他的NBA生涯,他只能算是名人堂边缘,不过你要是加上国家队表现,那就稳进了。

[–]Rockets Protheanate 1014 指標 8小時前*

LOL fringe?? Whos man is this

He’s been a perennial DPOY candidate, 3x All Star, multiple All NBA teams and is one of the best passing big men league history.

He was also the star on a perennial playoff team in Memphis.

火箭球迷:呵呵呵,边缘?您算哪位啊

小加常年都是年度最佳防守人候选,3次进入全明星,多次进入赛季最佳阵,而且还是联盟史上最擅长传球的内线之一。

他是曾经那支连年进季后赛的灰熊里的头牌啊。

[–]Raptors crazy_frog 45 指標 6小時前

He's right though, if you exclude Marc's international accolades then his NBA career in its own isn't really strong enough to be a HoF lock. He's not a perennial DPOY candidate as he's only finished top 10 in voting the year he won it. Multiple All NBA teams is 2 times, which is good but not outwardly. His stat totals aren't all that impressive either compared to other NBA exclusive HoF players.

Maybe the closest comparison in terms of NBA accolades is Mo Cheeks? And would probably consider MO as one of the weaker profiles on the HoF list.

猛龙球迷:人家也没说错,如果不算小加的国家队荣誉,那仅凭他的NBA生涯,进名人堂还真算不上板上钉钉。他并不是常年都是最佳防守人候选,因为他只有一次被投进前10,那就是他当选那一年。你说的多次进入赛季最佳阵也就是两次,还不错,但算不上有多突出。

比起其他名人堂遗珠型球员来说,他的生涯总数据也不算闪光。

就NBA生涯成就来讲,最能拿来与之比较的或许是莫里斯-奇克斯?不过奇克斯的名人堂履历相对其他名人堂成员来说,算是比较暗淡的。

[–]Huskies RileyCola 622 指標 8小時前*

3x all star, 2x all NBA, DPOY, first team defence, all rookie, NBA championship is what he’s won for anyone curious. Then his euro awards are Spanish league champion, MVP, all league and euroscar player of the year.

3次全明星,2次赛季最佳阵,1次赛季最佳防守人,1次赛季最佳防守阵一阵,最佳新秀阵,1次NBA总冠军,这就是小加的成就。然后他的欧洲成就是西班牙联赛冠军、MVP、联赛最佳阵容和欧洲篮球先生。

[–]Nuggets TheSupergrass 161 指標 6小時前

Yeah, that's definitely HOF material

掘金球迷:对啊,这绝对是名人堂素材了。

[–]Suns RasputinSpaghetti 262 指標 8小時前

I mean Ben Wallace is a 4x DPOY, 4x All Star multiple All NBA teams and a champion as well and he isn't in. Chris Webber isn't in either. I think Marc will make it, but on the strength of just his NBA career alone it isn't an absolute lock. Add in int'l and it is.

太阳球迷:我觉得吧,人家本-华莱士4次当选赛季最佳防守人,4次进入全明星,多次赛季最佳阵,也有一个总冠军,可他没进名人堂。克里斯-韦伯也是。我认为小加会进,可是就单说他NBA生涯的话没那么保险。

[–][DET] Olden Polynice moonguidex 24 指標 5小時前

Ben Wallace absolutely should be in the HOF, it's insane that he isn't.

活塞球迷:大本绝对该进名人堂的,没进太扯了

[–]Booby_McTitties 204 指標 8小時前

Ben Wallace was simultaneously the best defensive player and the worst offensive player to get significant minutes in the league.

当年联盟里获得足够多出场时间的球员里,本-华莱士既是防守最强的,也是进攻最菜的。

[–]kustoo 93 指標 6小時前

Dennis Rodman has entered the chat

罗德曼进入了群聊。

[–]SEE_RED 57 指標 6小時前

Rodman got buckets in his early days then he stopped. That's not Ben

罗德曼生涯早期还是能得分的。华莱士就不同了。

[–]GjoniGjoni28 14 指標 7小時前

People that say Melo ain’t a HOFer

有人还说甜瓜进不了名人堂

[–]Hawks jvstinf 49 指標 6小時前

They are stupid.

老鹰球迷:这种人就是蠢。

[–]Raptors cliu91 95 指標 4小時前

So happy to see him get a ring, and a ring with us nonetheless!

猛龙球迷:看到小加拿到戒指真是开心,而且还是和我们一起!

[–]Cavaliers DeanBlandino 12 指標 1小時前

He not only got a ring, but he was a serious contributor to that ring. Always loved his game and am so happy he got to show the world what he could do.

骑士球迷:他可不止是拿戒指这么简单,他还做出了重要贡献。我一直都喜欢看他打球,看到他能向全世界展示自己的能力真是高兴啊

[–]Pistons Beast-2 121 指標 5小時前

Crazy that a pair of brothers went this crazy

活塞球迷:加索尔这兄弟俩居然都打得这么好,也真是离奇

[–]Trail Blazers MaynardJimmyKeenan 50 指標 4小時前

Kahwi and Meyers Leonard would like a word

开拓者球迷:卡哇伊-莱昂纳德和迈尔斯-莱昂纳德有话要说。

[–]Raptors TheSimonToUrGarfunkl 90 指標 5小時前

I'd say Michael and Jerome Jordan were just as impressive

猛龙球迷:那我觉得迈克尔-乔丹和杰罗梅-乔丹也不虚哦

[–][BOS] Kevin Garnett Prince_OfCanada 4 指標 8小時前

Serious question. Which Gasol has had a better career?

凯尔特人球迷:说真的,哪个加索尔的职业生涯更出色?

[–]MrPewpyButtwhole 12 指標 8小時前

Marc with the better longevity, Pau with the higher peak.

弟弟的生涯能打的时间更长,哥哥的巅峰期更强。

[–]Lakers Polar_Reflection 45 指標 6小時前*

Iono if you can give Marc the "better longevity" award--Pau has been in the league 6 years longer than Marc and played in more 400 more games-- of course he has fallen off a cliff the last couple of years.

湖人球迷:你要说小加“能打的时间更长”的话,那大加在联盟待的时间可比小加还多6年,而且打得比赛也多了400场——当然了,他这几个赛季已经没那个能力了。

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[–]Nuggets loplopplop 51 指標 9小時前

Everyone always asks what a great historical matchup would be but I'd love to see the grit and grind Grizzlies vs the Shaq and Kobe Lakers. I don't think the Griz would win the series by any means, but damn would that be a knock down drag out series.

掘金球迷:大家一直会问,怎样的对决算得上是历史级的强强对话,我的答案是黑又硬时代的灰熊遇上OK组合时期的湖人。我觉得无论如何灰熊都赢不下系列赛,可灰熊会把你榨干。

[–]Mavericks mrHoohs 74 指標 9小時前

mark would not be able to stop shaq ...

独行侠球迷:小加索尔可拦不住奥尼尔……

[–]Grizzlies theDarkAngle 27 指標 6小時前

No and no one is claiming that exactly. But great defenses could contain shaq though especially after teams started implementing their zone-like schemes. Marc is a good starting point for defending Shaq within a team concept.

Gasol would also have posed a problem for Shaq offensively with the way he operates from the high post, and later from the three point line.

灰熊球迷:确实拦不住,也没人这么说。不过出色的防守会限制住奥尼尔,在团队作战的概念下,小加会是个很好的防守发起点。

而且小加可以在进攻端利用自己的高位进攻和三分投射给奥尼尔制造麻烦

[–]Magics vanxx 21 指標 7小時前

No one stopped Shaq, but Hakeem was one of the few that was better than him when they played against each other.

魔术球迷:没人能拦得住奥尼尔,不过有那么几个人确实在面对奥尼尔时能占得上风,奥拉朱旺就是其中之一。

[–]Trail Blazers sharpstud 13 指標 6小時前

Didn't yao match up pretty well against him too?

开拓者球迷:姚明当初碰上奥尼尔不是也打得挺好?

[–]Rularuu 18 指標 5小時前

Yao was one of the few players Shaq respected/still respects. Shaq still won most of their matchups but it was definitely close.

姚明是奥尼尔颇为敬重的那么几个球员之一。他俩的对话里奥尼尔赢得了大多数,不过场面肯定是很接近的。

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[–]76ers supzy0 191 指標 11小時前*

well gasol is one of the top 5 centers in the past decade or so lol, people forget how great he was during the grit n grind era

76人球迷:小加可是过去十年来前五的中锋之一啊,哈哈,很多人都忘了黑又硬时代的他有多强。

[–]Zwickz26 9 指標 10小時前

Masai acquiring Garc Masol was a brilliant move.

乌杰里搞来小加索尔这可真是妙笔

[–]pwd9398 464 指標 11小時前

Honeslty in the East, Gasol is worth hanging on to just to regularly son Embiid and Vucevic. Everything else is gravy

说真的,在东部,仅凭日常吊打恩比德和武切维奇就值得留住小加索尔,其他的都是额外福利。

[–]45MJ23 29 指標 9小時前

I'm glad Vucevic was acknowledged. He had a very good, all-nba caliber season one season ago and has always performed well against Embiid himself. Too bad he's rarely spoken of.

武切维奇被认可我还是挺开心的。一个赛季之前,他打出了一个非常出色的赛季最佳阵级别的表现,而且他每每碰上恩比德总能有上佳发挥。可惜大家一直不怎么吹他。

[–]Magic svanxx 13 指標 7小時前

Gasol is so good against Vuc, that he decided to use voodoo to take him out of the last game. Not that he needed to, Vuc was already 1-7 when he went down.

魔术球迷:小加对上武切维奇的时候打得是真好,甚至还用上“巫术”使其因伤下场。其实也没那个必要,武切维奇受伤离场前就已经7中1了。

[–][MEM] Andrew Harris onepicnerd427 203 指標 10小時前

His scoring touch ain't where it was but his D and passing are still good enough to be worth playing.

He ain't getting another 20mil a year contract but he probably has a few more years left just to son the best Cs of the east

灰熊球迷:小加的得分手感没以前那么犀利了,可他的防守和传球依然很见功力,这就足以为他争取到出场时间了。

他以后不会得到年薪2000万的合同了,然而他或许还能再打几年,专门教训那些东部顶级中锋。

[–]probablymade_thatup 94 指標 10小時前

Is the East just the size division? Aside from the Lakers, the West is much more oriented toward small ball, but the East has the Raps, Sixers, and Bucks who play tall ball

难道东部是只靠身高区分的吗?除了湖人,西部更多地是以小球为主,可是在东部,猛龙、76人和雄鹿都是玩大球。

[–][MIL] Bill Zopf FKJVMMP 18 指標 6小時前

The Raptors’ starting back court is a pair of guys who’d be lucky to hit 6’, and we play four guard lineups with Giannis at centre semi-regularly (we had Sterling Brown on Andre Drummond for a bit against the Pistons the other day, looked hilarious).

We’re just versatile.

雄鹿球迷:猛龙的先发后场是一对连6英尺都够呛的小个子,而我们也会时不时得打四后卫阵容,配上字母哥打中锋(前几天打活塞的时候我们甚至用斯特林-布朗对位庄神,看起来蛮搞笑的)。

[–][TOR] Chauncey Billups kingcasus 72 指標 10小時前

The Raps play some small lineups a lot but with Ibaka back we’ll be playing a lot taller. Throw in Orlando who has some big lineups as well

猛龙球迷:猛龙也常常打一些小个阵容,可是伊巴卡回来之后,我们的高度会提高很多。魔术也有些大个阵容。

[–]Pacers MindofShadow 47 指標 9小時前

pacers also start Turner, Sabonis, Warren with a 6'5 point guard

步行者球迷:步行者也会让特纳、萨博尼斯、沃伦同时首发,再配上一个6尺5的控卫。

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来源:Reddit

编译:云长刮个痧

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