【键盘侠】11年后詹姆斯8进总决|健康詹自动锁定总决席位?

2020-10-17 16:29:36 reddit {{info|html}} {{advert|html}}

LeBron in 9 seasons since 2011 failure: 8 Finals appearances, 4 championships, 4 FMVPs. Averages of 29.2/9.4/7.3 on 59.6 TS% in 168 playoff games with 3 different franchises

11年总决赛失利之后9个赛季,老詹8次打进总决赛,4次夺冠,拿到4个FMVP。在三支不同球队共参战了168场季后赛,场均29.2分9.4板7.3助,真实命中率59.6%。

One of the most dominant decades by a single player in league history capped off with yet another Finals MVP for King James. Will the 2020s belong to LeBron as well? Only time will tell

放眼NBA历史,这都是最具统治力的个人高光十年之一,而且国王詹姆斯这又拿下了一个FMVP。下一个十年还会属于詹姆斯吗?

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[–]Huhuagau 1154 指標 13小時前

People genuinely think (even with these results) that it's a bad idea to let Bron run and dictate teams. They talk about him selling off teams futures and picking players to win like it's a bad thing. And it's like... Have you seen the success he brings? Literally any franchise would kill to have his success in the past decade. It's amazing watching the mental gymnastics

还真有人觉得(哪怕他成绩斐然)不能让老詹管控和支配球队。他们说他为了夺冠,卖掉了球队的未来然后挑来一些球员,搞得像是坏事一样。说起来……难道你们看不到老詹带来的成功吗?过去十年能要是取得他这种成就,换任何球队基本都会求之不得。

[–][LAL] Kobe Bryant HanBr0 58 指標 14小時前

LeBron can do whatever the fuck he wants to the Lakers if it means another chip within the next 3 years.

湖人球迷:如果今后三年还能拿一个冠军,那尼玛勒布朗想干啥都成。

[–]mmmmm_pi 362 指標 10小時前

The Zach Lowe quote from his podcast a couple weeks ago puts it really well:

"When you get Lebron James...Coaches will get fired, draft picks/young players will get traded to get him his help, but Lebron will take you to the Finals (barring any injuries). He will not lose in the Conference Finals, he will not have a blip in the Second Round...that's the payout."

Zach Lowe两周前在他播客上那段话说得蛮好:“当你得到詹姆斯之后……主教练会被炒,选秀签和年轻人会被交易出去换回詹姆斯的帮手,不过老詹能带队打进总决赛(前提不受伤)。他不会在分区决赛输球,也不会在二轮拉胯……这就是回报。”

[–]Huhuagau 133 指標 10小時前

And people think that's a bad thing. I don't understand it. But they do. The amount of people who would have gone to town tearing him apart for "his" roster construction if they lost would have been insane without any assessment that it's actually amazing to make the finals any year, even if you don't win it

有人觉得这样不好啊。我是搞不懂的,但他们真就这么觉得。要是他“组建”的阵容没有夺冠,很多人恨不能把他撕碎咯,他们也不想想,不管哪一年,能够进总决赛其实就已经很了不起了,哪怕没夺冠又咋样呢。

[–]mmmmm_pi 81 指標 9小時前

Exactly. Those people must be happy with first and second round playoff exits. Or just missing the playoffs. LeBron's record speaks for itself. In the past 10 seasons, his teams are 27-0 in the playoffs ahead of the Finals. And he's 4-5 in the Finals. If people think losing in the Finals is somehow a stain on his record, then what do they make of everyone else who loses even earlier in the process?

就是。要是首轮游或者次轮出局,那些人肯定很开心。要不无缘季后赛也行。詹姆斯这些年的战绩已经很有说服力了。过去十个赛季,他的球队(打进季后赛)在总决赛之前是27胜0负。而他在总决赛是4胜5负。如果有些人真以为总决赛输球反倒是他个人纪录的污点的话,那这些人又怎么评价那些连总决赛都进不了的球员呢?

[–]tikitrona 22 指標 7小時前

It’s a symptom of Michael Jordan. Perfect record which is badass but unrealistic. But maybe that’s the allure. I think luck always plays a part and Michael Jordan was ahead of his time (during the era of bigs).

都是被乔丹给惯得。纪录完美且不讲理,但很不现实啊。不过也许这才能吊人胃口。我觉得这与运气有关,而且乔丹当年可是引领时代(中锋年代)的。

[–]Lakers KawhiCancunFMVP 447 指標 13小時前

I'd rather build my team "the right way" and lose proudly than let LeGM do whatever he pleases even if it means getting my franchise's 1st conference/finals appearance/championship

Every time I see people saying shit like this I just laugh. I mean even as a spoiled Lakers fan I'd rather see my team always have a chance to win it all than "do it right" whatever the fuck that actually means

湖人球迷:“我宁愿我的主队‘以合理方式’建队然后站着死,也不愿意经理詹为所欲为,哪怕他能让我的主队首次打进分区决赛(总决赛或冠军)也不行。”

我每次看到这种屁话就想笑。哪怕我这个被惯坏的湖蜜,也希望看到我的主队一直有夺冠的机会啊,哪还管特么“合理”与否啊。

[–]Huhuagau 154 指標 13小時前

It just makes no sense. They literally use his success as evidence that it's a bad thing that he's LeGM (which,

although he clearly has incredibly influence, makes no sense)

那些人简直是胡说八道。居然还真用老詹的成功当做经理詹不行的证据……

[–]NBA p2datrizzle 21 指標 9小時前

They say that when hes not in their team. When hes on their team they start sucking his dick. Even the heat sub were talking shit about lebron during series lol.

Thats when i realized these fans talk about loyalty and shit but they dont have any. They just want players to win them a championship so theyll feel better about their lives momentarily.

他们之所以会这么说,那是因为老詹不在他们主队。要是有了老詹,他们就立马开始跪舔了。之前总决赛期间,就连热火专区也在喷老詹,哈哈哈哈

我当时就明白了,这些球迷嘴上说着忠诚之类的屁话,可自己其实一点也不忠诚。他们只是希望球员们拿个冠军,从而让自己在生活中暂时好受点。

[–]Lakers KawhiCancunFMVP 79 指標 13小時前

Lakers sucked for 7 yrs and didn't win for 10 years, that felt super long for me like when Kobe won his last with Shaq before Pau came and I can't even imagine what it's like for fans of teams who've never even reach the finals.

I KNOW I'm spoiled not only with success but the all time players I've managed to watch in my lifetime on this team and that's exactly why I don't understand fans who choose their pride than accept an all time player lead them.

湖人球迷:我湖沉沦了7年,之前10年无冠,我已经感觉很漫长了,就像回到了加索尔来之前OK组合最后一次夺冠那会儿。所以我无法想象,那些主队从未进过决赛的球迷们是啥感受。

我知道自己被惯坏了,不但是因为我湖的成就,还有这辈子在我湖能够看到的那些历史级球星,正因如此,我就没法理解那些所谓的宁要尊严也不愿接受一个历史级球星带队的球迷。

[–]Trail Blazers NeverPull0ut 16 指標 8小時前

As a Blazers fan whose team (almost) always makes the playoffs but hasn’t been a serious contender since 2001... I would trade our consistent success over the past two decades for 1-2 legitimate shots at a championship in a heartbeat.

开拓者球迷:我的主队几乎从未缺席过季后赛,可是自打01年过后,就不算啥争冠球队了……如果能换来一两次真正的冲击冠军的机会,我愿意立马放弃过去这20年我们这些稳定的成绩。

[–]Lakers sigmapro 23 指標 10小時前

What’s different in LA this time is that he got Anthony fucking Davis to join. Even if he left in 2 years, LA would still have an incredibly bright future, much much brighter than keeping Ingram & Ball if you ask me.

湖人球迷:我湖这次夺冠的不同之处在于,詹姆斯有了特么戴维斯的帮助。哪怕他两年内走人,我湖依然前景光明,要我说的话,比留下莺歌和鲍尔要光明得多得多。

[–]Mavericks freezerdonoyamete 24 指標 9小時前

AD is what, 27 years old? He's still got years of elite play left in him. Having him is so much better than having the likes of Ingram and Ball that it's not even a question.

独行侠球迷:戴维斯貌似27了?他依然还有好几年的巅峰。他可比莺歌和鲍尔这种球员强太多了,这甚至都不用问。

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[–]Mavericks AnthonyTyrael 124 指標 13小時前

Dude is just impressive.

Enjoy him and some other greats in the NBA for as long as they keep playing.

独行侠球迷:老詹就是惊艳众生啊!

只要他和其他那些顶级球星还在打,咱们就好好享受吧。

[–]kopkiwi 6 指標 6小時前

It's like The Federer v Nadal debate with Tennis. STFU and enjoy the fact that for nearly 20 years we've watched 2 of the most insane Tennis player ever, at the same time. Add Novak into that mix and you have a ridiculous run of dominance from 3 players.

就像网球界的费德勒和纳达尔之争。争个屁啊,好好欣赏不行吗?快20年了,咱们可是见证了史上最强网球运动员之二的表演啊,再加上德约,他们仨这些年轮流坐庄的统治力简直是不可思议。

[–]Listen Bruv 62 指標 10小時前

I think it’s important to realize that Lebron will only be in the league for maybe 4 years or less - max. And his peak may continue for another year or two or three before he hangs it up or runs on fumes.

People need to stop debating and just stop and stare and soak in what’s happening.

It’s going to be really difficult for another player to match this level of achievement.

Source: Early career Lebron hater

我觉得大家必须得明白一点,老詹或许最多只能在联盟打4年球了。他的巅峰期也许还有个一两年,甚至是三年,然后他就退役或者力不从心了。

咱们真不能再这么吵下去了,歇歇吧,关注并沉浸于当下所发生的一切吧。

以后还想看到他这种战功赫赫的球员,怕是极其困难了。

来源:詹姆斯生涯早期的喷子。

[–]Strid3r21 46 指標 9小時前

lebron's longevity is going to be solely based off if he can avoid any serious injuries.

He has such a high BB iQ that even if he's not physically as dominant in the coming years he will adapt his game and still be a force to have to deal with. Even if he's not driving to the basket every other play.

詹姆斯的生涯寿命仅仅取决于他是否能避免重大伤病。

他的球商实在是太高了,哪怕今后几年他的身体统治力下滑,哪怕他不再时不时地冲击篮下,他也会调整比赛风格,依然是对手不敢大意的存在。

[–]Habefiet 16 指標 9小時前

What’s stopping him from staying in longer, assuming no injuries? A diminished LeBron would still be a starter, a greatly diminished LeBron would still be better than most current bench players. It’s possible that he would quit once he was bench material, but if his son gets into the NBA and they can get their way onto the same team I can see him sticking it out as long as his body allows. He’s obviously very concerned with his legacy and the longer he stays in the more lifetime points / assists / etc. he gets. I would honestly give like a 10-15% chance that he tries to break the age record explicitly to add to his legacy further and make him feel untouchable

假设老詹没有伤病,那还有什么能阻止他打得更久一些?弱化后的老詹依然具备首发实力,哪怕是大幅下滑的老詹依然比联盟目前大多数板凳球员厉害。一旦他退步到板凳水准,退役的可能也是存在的,可如果他的儿子进入了NBA,而且父子俩有机会做队友的话,那我觉得只要身体允许,老詹就会接着打。很显然,老詹是很在意个人成就的,他在联盟打得越久,那他的总得分和助攻啥的就能越多。其实要我说啊,老詹为了进一步拔高个人成就、让后辈难以追赶,他大概有10%到15%的可能会尝试着打破NBA的最年长球员纪录。

[–]Thats Preposterous6 269 指標 13小時前

Man he got so unlucky playing his best ball during the Warriors dynasty. He would easily have 6+ rings now.....

天呐,老詹真是时运不济,状态最爆炸的时候遇到了勇士王朝。否则的话,他这会儿冠军数至少6个起步……

[–]Cavaliers GroundhogNight 138 指標 11小時前

People really use that against him too. 2015 his entire team gets injured.

2016: he wins.

2017 and 2018: he’s against an unprecedented team. If there’s ever been a Super Saiyan team, it’s the KD GSW.

Idk how you look negatively at those outcomes when they were legitimately impossible fights.

骑士球迷:还真有人拿这个当黑料。2015年那会儿,他整个球队都伤了。

2016年,他夺冠了。17和18年:他的对手是一支空前强大的球队。如果超级赛亚队真实存在的话,那就是阿杜时期的勇士。

那完全就是不可能拿下的战斗啊,不知道那些人是怎么找到黑詹的角度的。

[–]Lakers 9D_Chess 24 指標 6小時前

I saw some post the other day where the Cavs were down 3-0 in the 2018 finals but Brons statline was 37.7/10.7/9.0 on 53% fg. Shit is actually insane, against any other team he probably could have won that series despite the rest of the team choking.

湖人球迷:前天我还看到有人发了个关于骑士18年总决赛的帖子,当时他们0-3落后时,詹姆斯场均37.7分10.7板9助,命中率53%。这特么也太强了吧,虽说其他队友趴窝了,可要是换成其他任何对手,或许老詹那轮系列赛就拿下了。

[–]Cavaliers ghrarhg 240 指標 11小時前

Seriously, fucking KD ruined so much.

骑士球迷:有一说一,傻批杜兰特毁掉了太多。

[–]Trail Blazers johnsom3 8 指標 6小時前

Did KD impact Lebrons legacy more than he did his own?

开拓者球迷:阿杜对老詹成就的影响难道比他对自身成就的影响还要大吗?

[–]Celtics theraarman 13 指標 5小時前

He impacted both but more so his own. He robbed LeBron of 1-2 more rings, but he also partially invalidated his own two rings because GSW was essentially Team USA without Bron. So now even if KD has 2 rings, most people still want KD to prove himself and get one under more realistic circumstances.

凯尔特人球迷:他既影响了自己也影响了老詹,但自身更多。他“抢”了老詹一两个戒指,但他也一定程度上灌水了自己的两个戒指,因为勇士本质上就是没有詹姆斯的梦之队。所以说,哪怕现在阿杜有了两个戒指,大多数人依然希望他能证明自己,在更为现实的环境下拿到一个冠军。

[–]Canada MATH137IsJustHSCalc 16 指標 9小時前

Lebron has both benefited and been a victim of the player movement era that he pretty much started.

加拿大球迷:说起球员抱团,老詹既是受益者也是受害者,毕竟那个风气算是他开的头。

[–]Thats Preposterous6 27 指標 9小時前

That is true. I would say the big 3 in Boston truly started it, though. LeBron going to Miami made it take off

这是事实。不过我觉得真正的始作俑者是波士顿的三巨头。詹姆斯去迈阿密之后就成了一种风气。

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[–]NBA BorosSerenc 113 指標 10小時前

People slandered lebron for ruining the Cavs future... lmao.. The fucking Cleveland Cavaliers one of the all-time shittest franchises got some big contracts to pay after he left and he only got them 4 Eastern conference championships and ended a 50 year city wide championship drought.

之前还有人说是詹姆斯毁了骑士的未来呢……笑死我了……特么克利夫兰骑士明明是史上最烂球队之一,老詹走后他们居然还送出了几个大合同,况且老詹还带队4夺分区冠军,结束了50年的冠军荒。

[–]Ok Function8 10 指標 7小時前

I was one of those slanderers and have only recently come around as I see the Blazers get injured year after year and not make it.

The Cavs fucking sucked before he showed up. It's not like he trashed the Louvre or something.

以前我也这么黑过老詹,到最近才醒悟过来,因为我看到开拓者年复一年地遭遇伤病,没法取得大作为。

老詹冒头之前,骑士本来就菜得一匹,别搞得像是老詹毁掉了一座宫殿一样。

[–]Huhuagau 27 指標 10小時前

It's madness. Either he's responsible for the wins and the costs of that or he's not responsible (from a managers aspect) for the wins and the costs of that. Either way, he's bought a championship to every team he's gone to. Seems like he knows what he's doing

那些人简直离谱。要么赢球和为此付出的代价都与老詹无关(从总经理角度而言),要么就全都有关。不管咋说,他所到之处都带来了冠军。他知道自己在干啥。

[–]cruelstarfishthesis 19 指標 9小時前

Also the Cavs aren't in a terrible position rn. They've got great young pieces, most of their draft picks, and they're finally going to be below the tax line. The only awkward things for them are figuring out what to do with Love/Drummond and whether to re-sign TT but those issues have nothing to do with Lebron. It'll take a few years to sort out but this team has some promise

而且骑士现在处境也不算落魄啊。他们得到了很棒的年轻拼图,大多都是选秀签的变现,而且他们马上要降到奢侈线之下了。

对他们来说目前唯一尴尬的,就是得想好怎么处理乐福和德拉蒙德,还有是否和汤普森续约,不过这些难题都和詹姆斯无关啊。骑士还需要几年时间才能缓过劲儿来,但他们还是颇有前途的。

[–]NBA BorosSerenc 16 指標 9小時前

I mean we can already see, the terrible Cavs FO at work, drafting 2 meh, undersized guards back to back. Just drafting pretty meh overal. Trading for fckn Drummond of all people. Such a mess

我觉得吧,咱们已经见识过骑士管理层的昏庸无能了,居然连着选了两个小个后卫。那么多目标,居然把特么德拉蒙德搞过来了。一团浆糊。

[–]Lakers BritzlBen 9 指標 9小時前

Their front court of Love, Drummond, Thompson, and Nance is so crowded and confusing to me and they all are paid good money and they don't seem to want to trade any of them like wtf are they doing?

湖人球迷:骑士的前场冗员过多,乐福、德拉蒙德、汤普森和小南斯,我都蒙圈了,而且那些人都拿着高薪,可是骑士貌似并不愿意交易任何人,搞鸡毛啊?

[–]Nuggets skillet06g 43 指標 10小時前

Imagine if Lebron was drafted by a team with a competent FO.

掘金球迷:要是老詹当初被一支管理层称职的球队选中,那会是怎样……

[–]Huhuagau 53 指標 10小時前

Goat discussion would be over IMO if that happened

要真那样的话,史上最佳就不用争了。

[–]Mavericks hcvc 21 指標 9小時前

unfortunately those teams (usually) don't get the 1st overall pick

独行侠球迷:可惜那种球队(一般)拿不到状元签。

[–][LAL] Smush Parker A_Lakers 14 指標 8小時前

Spurs in 96(?) and Warriors this year come to mind(not first but very close)

湖人球迷:我想到了96年的马刺和这赛季的勇士(接近状元签)

[–]Countless Time 16 指標 7小時前

In another parallel universe, 17-yrs-old Chosen 1 LeBron is going to be drafted by either Spurs or GSW. LeBron will become fmvp the first year and straight up to 7 rings with the record 7-0. Fuck it, he’ll be the undisputed GOAT in the most glorious and easiest way

在另一个平行时空,17岁的天选之子詹姆斯被马刺或勇士选中,他处子赛季就当选FMVP,总决赛7战7胜豪取7连冠。喂日,他将以最光芒四射且轻而易举的方式成为无可争议的史上最强者。

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[–]theBUMPnight 19 指標 9小時前

A healthy LeBron has guaranteed his team a Finals berth for a decade straight. That is fucking nuts.

一个健康的詹姆斯就可以连续十年保证自己的球队拿下总决赛席位。这特么太强了。

[–]Heat sijaz321 460 指標 14小時前

2011 finals failure was one of the most important moments of his career. Without that, we wouldn't have game 6 in the eastern finals in 2012.

We wouldn't have games 6 and 7 in 2013.

We wouldn't have his finals mvp performance in 2015, cause let's be real he deserved that over Iggy.

We wouldn't have the 3-1 comeback in 2016.

We wouldn't have him carrying the Cavs in 2017 and 2018.

And we wouldn't have 2020.

2011 humbled the SHIT out of this man. He deserves everything he has now.

热火球迷:11年的失利是他职业生涯最为重要的时刻之一。没有那次失利的话,就没有12年东决G6的詹姆斯。

就没有13年G6和G7的詹姆斯;也没有15年FMVP级表现的詹姆斯,因为实事求是地说,他比一哥更该拿到那个奖项;

没有16年的1-3大逆转;没有17年和18年的扛着骑士前行;更没有20年的夺冠。

11年的失利让这个男人变得极其谦逊,他担得起目前拥有的一切。

[–]Registered to VoteIn_The_Paint 96 指標 13小時前

2011 was the catalyst but G6 in 2012 was the defining turning point in my opinion.

They were staring down the barrel of getting tossed by the Celtics, the entire Heat team was playing like fucking ass and LeBron through sheer will and what looked like genuine anger put that team on his back and single handedly won that game in the most spectacular fashion. It was more impressive than what he did to Detroit whilst still in Cleveland a few years earlier.

I will never forget watching when LeBron started taking over and he looked fucking PISSED, the look on his face... oh man. I saw and it thought "oh the Celtics are so fucked right now'.

2011年是催化剂,但我觉得,12年G6战才是决定性的转折点。

他们被凯尔特人逼到了悬崖边缘,整个热火都瞎JB打,而詹姆斯被彻底点燃了斗志和怒火,将球队扛到肩上,一己之力以最为非凡的方式拿下那场比赛。相比起骑士一期他在活塞跟前的操作,这场比赛更为惊艳。

老詹开始接管比赛时怒火中烧的表情……我这辈子都不会忘掉。我当时看到那个眼神就觉得“噢,凯尔特人要完犊子咯”。

[–][NYK] Tracy McGrady HoboWithAGlock 78 指標 13小時前

Still probably the highest stakes game I've ever seen for any single player.

Dude's entire career and legacy were on the line and he straight didn't smile for 48 minutes.

尼克斯球迷:在我看来,对任何球员个人而言,那场比赛或许依然是分量最重的一场比赛。

詹姆斯的整个职业生涯和名誉全都在此一举,他全场48分钟都没有露出笑脸。

[–]Cavaliers CapturedSoul 26 指標 11小時前

Lebron also worked on his post game after 2011. People forget but back then he literally did not know how to post up and was going thru similar growing pains Gianni's is going thru with good defenses on him.

骑士球迷:11年过后,詹姆斯也磨炼了自身的低位背打技术。大家都忘了这茬,不过当时他还真不知道怎么背打,也在经历着和如今的字母哥一样的成长的痛苦。

[–]cruelstarfishthesis 16 指標 9小時前

It really makes you appreciate Hakeem tho doesn't it? One of the best mentors out there

这还真得感谢奥拉朱旺,对吧?那就是史上最强导师之一。

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来源:Reddit

编译:云长刮个痧

美帝键盘侠—歪果仁精彩评论汇总